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From: dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: The arrogance of Christians
Message-ID: <May.13.02.28.25.1993.1455@geneva.rutgers.edu>
Date: 13 May 93 06:28:25 GMT
Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu
Organization: Representing my own views and not that of my company here.
Lines: 122
Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

news@cbnewsk.att.com writes:
: Arrogance is arrogance.  It is not the result of religion, it is the result
: of people knowing or firmly believing in an idea and one's desire to show
: others of one's rightness.  I assume that God decided to be judge for our
: sake as much as his own, if we allow him who is kind and merciful be the 
: judge, we'll probably be better off than if others judged us or we judged 
: ourselves.  

I'm not sure I agree with this 100%.  I agree that arrogance is not the result
of religion and that God is a far better judge than we are.  I also agree if
you mean to say that arrogance shows up in the form of trying to prove one's
superior knowledge, rightness, or holiness over another person's beliefs.

I need to be careful to understand what you mean here so that I do not fall
into the mistake of misrepresenting your views.  If I fall down in this area
I hope you will forgive me.

Arrogance is not the result of believing one is right or of believing that
one's God is greater than the god's of others or of believing that one's
religion is better than other religions.  These are all naturally self-implied
beliefs.

It is self-contradictory to say that I believe my current beliefs to be wrong.
Were I to find myself in error, my beliefs would naturally change and follow
what I believe to be right.  Therefore, I must always consider my beliefs
correct.  That's not arrogance.  That's unavoidable behavior.

It is nonsense to say that I believe another person's god to be greater than
my God.  Were his or her god greater, wouldn't I be obligated to change so
that their god would become my God?  We are naturally obligated to worship
that God which we deem to be the greatest.  Why should we feel obligated to
worship a second best god for the sake of feeling humble?

Arrogance is not necessarily thinking onesself to be better looking or more
intelligent or stronger or having more resources than another person.  No
doubt many will have to chew on this one awhile.  Were passive observation
of one's superior points arrogance, then God would be most arrogant of all.

Humility does not rest in slandering or belittling God's work of creation in
our lives.  People often go around trying to be humble saying to one another,
"I'm not very smart.  I'm poor.  I'm not good looking.  I'm just a worm in
the ground.  I'm such a weak person and although I don't want to sin, I
really cannot help it."  Were this person truely humble, he would take a
different approach.  "God, thank you for making me the way you did.  I know
that you never do anything second best.  Yet with all that you have given me,
I have been so unthankful.  You've given me power to resist the devil.  I
have not used it but have indulged myself in doing exactly what you have said
not to do.  I have slandered your creation in my life and have credited myself
with humility for doing so.  Lord, with all you've given me, I have been
completely unfaithful and I do not deserve your forgiveness.  And, yet Your
love for me is so boundless that you would give Yourself to die for me to
save me.  As terribly evil as I am, I deserve to go straight to hell, yet it
pleases you somehow to rescue me from this terrible life I've led.  Lord,
please forgive me and help me stay on the right track so that I can bring
glory to Your Name instead of insult.  Lord I'm so sorry for my wrongs.  Please
help me to change."

: 
: I think people take exceptional offense to religious arrogance because
: they don't want to be wrong.  If I find someone arrogant, I typically
: don't have anything to do with them.

For me, I've often found it hard to tell the difference.  Often times, the
most humble christian has come across to me as arrogant while the most
proud "worm in the ground" false humility type person has been found to be
most comfortable company.

When I'm wrong and arrogant about my wrongness, I certainly don't feel like
being confronted by my wrongness.  Were someone to confront me verbally with
my wrongness, I'd be likely to snap at them and examine them head to toe for
all their faults and charge them with hypocricy for what they said to me.
At the root, my desire would be to make them shut up so that I can go about
living my life arrogantly as I wish.  However, were someone to confront me
silently by their example, earn my respect, and perhaps mention it to me in
humility in private, I'd feel broken down and challenged to seek God for help
in changing from the error of my ways.

The hard part is getting to the point to where I can be humble before anyone
regardless of their humility or pride--regardless of their hypocricy or
sincerity--regardless of whether onlookers will frown down upon me or not.
It isn't easy to take this pain in love with thankfulness for the opportunity
to improve in one's ability to serve God.  It's easier to cast aside any hope
of reaching true humility and merely hide behind slandering God's creation
in our lives instead.

: But we should examine ourselves [I hope I typed this back in right]
: and why we react to certain situations with such emotions.  For instance,
: many of us feel "justified" to be insulted by an arrogant person.  As if
: we needed a reason to feel insulted.  But after being insulted over and
: over again by the words of others, you'd think we'd either toughen up
: or decide not to be insulted, or ignore the insult.  Just because you
: can justify feelings of anger or insult or outrage, that doesn't make that
: reaction the appropriate one.  It is in this light of self-examination
: that we can change our emotional reactions.
: 

Sometimes it helps when we can understand and feel the difference between
what is a true statement of our character and what is a false and slanderous
statement of our character.  The devil is the accuser of the bretheren.  He
would love us to feel hopelessly guilty where we are innocent and feel arrogant
and self-righteous where we are indeed wrong.  The devil's aim is to get us
into as much misery as he can.  Just think of the devil as a cruel and merci-
less criminal who torments a parent by burning his or her children with
hot irons.  The way the devil gets under the Father's skin is by hurting
those that the Father loves so much.


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
	"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...
	 We want prevention, not merely punishment.
	 We must reach the root of the evil...
	 It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt
	 from the dreadful deed...
	 No mater what the motive, love of ease,
		or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,
		the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...
	 but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her
		to the desperation which impelled her to the crime."

		- Susan B. Anthony,
		  The Revolution July 8, 1869
