Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!gatech!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian
From: aaronc@athena.mit.edu (Aaron Bryce Cardenas)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: christians and aids
Message-ID: <Apr.11.01.01.26.1993.17715@athos.rutgers.edu>
Date: 11 Apr 93 05:01:27 GMT
Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

Paul Conditt writes:
>Yes, it's important to realize that all actions have consequences,
>and that "rules" were made for our own good.  But to suggest that a
>*disease* is a *punishment* for certain types of sin I think is 
>taking things much too far.  
[text deleted]
>Yes, sin can have terrible consequences, but we need to be *real*
>careful when saying that the consequences are a *punishment* for 
>sin.  

I wish that you had followed this thread before jumping to conclusions.
I haven't seen anybody write that AIDS was a *punishment* for certain
types of sin (this includes Mark Ashley who you were responding to
here).  I myself wrote that when you don't do things God's way that
curses will come on you and others.  Although one definition of 'curse'
is 'retribution', I only meant 'harm or misfortune' when I used the
word.  Because God loves us he has told us the best way to live in his
Bible.  God doesn't cause curses, he warns us of them.

Kevin Davis wrote (a while ago):
>Last week I was guilty of anger, jealousy, and whole mess of
>other stuff, yet I am forgiven and not condemned to suffer with
>AIDs.  To even suggest that AIDS is "deserved" is ludicrous.

The Bible makes it clear that we all equally deserve death (which is
much worse than AIDS) -- we have all hurt God with our sin.

Paul Conditt reveals his feelings:
>In case you couldn't tell, I get *extremely* angry and upset when
>I see things like this.  Instead of rationalizing our own fears and
>phobias, we need to be reaching out to people with AIDS and other
>socially unacceptable diseases.  Whether they got the disease through
>their own actions or not is irrelevant.  They still need Jesus...

The first issue you bring up is your anger.  It is "obvious"ly wrong to
be angry (Gal 5:19-20) for any reason, especially *extremely* angry
which is on par with hatred.  Jesus has every reason to be angry at us
for putting him on the cross with our sin, yet his prayer was "forgive
them Father, they know not what they do."  Knowing how forgiving Jesus
has been with me calls me to be more forgiving with everyone out of
love for Him.  Please don't give in to anger, it will only cause
foolish quarrels and more bad feelings.

It's okay if you read something that bothers you, but you need to
address it in a loving way.  If right now, I felt like someone out
there was saying that God punishes gay or sexually immoral people with
AIDS because they deserve punishment that others don't then I would
frame a response something like this:

"It makes me feel very sad for someone to believe that AIDS, which is
simply a harmful disease not so unlike any other, is God's punishment
for people who have committed certain sins.  God loves all of his
children equally and rejoices when a single one comes back to him.  We
will all be judged after we die, but until then we all have the
opportunity to accept God's grace by earnestly seeking after him with
all of our hearts, believing the gospel's testimony, repenting of our
sin, confessing that Jesus is Lord at baptism, and living a new life
for him.
 Let us not judge someone to be eternally condemned.  God's arm is not
to short to save.  He will do anything he can to move a hardened heart
or a misled person.  He works for the good of all men.  Even through
the worst of situations, he has set the times and places for all men
that they may perhaps reach out and find him."

The second issue you bring up is seeing people rationalize their fears
of people with AIDS.  Fortunately, what you describe as seeing is
actually misperceiving.  You have been missing the points made in the
earlier posts and reacting in anger to attitudes that haven't been
expressed.  I know that its sometimes hard to discount your
perceptions, but please try to be open-minded.

You are quite correct in saying that we should reach out to all people
because they all need Jesus.  This is what my brothers and sisters and
I do on a daily basis.  If you would like to send me the name of the
city and state you live in, I will find and get you in touch with some
brothers who have AIDS or know people with AIDS and live nearby you so
that you can see the loving attitudes for yourself.

The third issue you bring up is the importance of how some individual
contracted AIDS.  How someone gets AIDS is only relevant to their
salvation in that there may be repetence involved.

The important point to be made, however, is that not listening to God's
commands (or advice or warnings), i.e. sinning, causes harm or
misfortune to yourself and others.  For this reason, a good way to
prevent the misfortune of AIDS, which can be transmitted in sinful ways,
is to listen to God's advice and have sex only with your wife or
husband.

I hope that you are feeling better now, Paul.

Love,

Aaron Cardenas
