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From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel an Apartheid State?  Not Quite.
Date: 14 May 1993 17:34:34 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
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References: <1se68nINNfo2@early-bird.think.com> <2703@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au> <1srg4cINNj73@early-bird.think.com> <2730@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au>
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In article <2730@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au>, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes:
|> In article <1srg4cINNj73@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes:
|> >In article <2703@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au>, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes:
|> 
|> >If you examine these I am
|> >sure you will discover that the Arab party member did not have the power
|> >base that his Jewish counterpart had.
|> 
|> Right, Arabs have been voting in Israel for how long? And in all that time
|> NOT ONE Arab EVER gained enough of a personal following to get his fellow
|> party members to put in a Ministry? This is about as likely as sprouting
|> wings and flying to Rio. What basis do you have for explaining this odd
|> failure? You seem very confident that you are right, exactly how do you
|> know, why are you sure?

It has nothing to do with how long they have been voting, as much as HOW
they have been voting.  Pick up a list of the Labor parties proposals
for MK prior to the election and pay attention to the order.  Correlate this
with the number of Arab party members eligible to vote in party elections.
Further correlate this with the voting results from Arab areas.

Lo and behold, you will discover that Israeli Arab Labor party members
did not band together unanimously or en large for a select group of
Arab candidates.  This problem is further exacerbated by the rifts
between Israeli Arabs.  Some claim membership to right wing parties
while others vote for parties that do not pass the minimum cutoff.

I worked within the labor party during the late 70's elections (not this
last one) as a volunteer and was privy to the voting results that
were returned from the local delegates elected.  At the time, the system
was structured differently but it did not cease to amaze me that there
was no massive effort to lobby for Arab reps. by their own delegates.

|> Exactly what basis do you have for saying this when the Labour party
|> has never put an Arab into a Cabinet post and insists its coalition
|> members do the same? Why and on what basis are you reassuring me in
|> the face of 50 years of discriminatory practise?

Quite simply, if all eligible Arab voters became members of the Labor
party and voted, they would be able to command more than %15 of
the delegates.  This is a power base that can not be ignored!
Especially when they are not ranked high in the party (once again
due to lack of political power).  I have seen how the labor party
works from the inside and my experience has been that, as in most
political situations, the MKs act out of their own self-interest.

And to answer your question, I "broke" with labor because I felt
that they were heeding too much to the right-wing and ultra-orthodox
coalition members.

|> >From "The OTHER Front", July 29, 1992.  Translation of Ha'aretz article.
|> 
|> Racism in the Knesset
|> ---------------------
|> 
|> This attitude -- which until recently had not even aroused criticism,
|> being so natural and so deeply-embossed upon people's hearts -- holds
|> that there are Knesset members who, despite having been elected by tens
|> of thousands of votes, are not entitled to be full partners in the body
|> which represents the people of Israel.  We are not speaking here of
|> political discrimination -- which would be bad enough in itself -- but
|> of racial discrimination.  The proof: one of the compromises proposed
|> was that MK Mahamid [an Arab - Yigal] should be replaced by Tamar
|> Gojanski [a Jew - Yigal] from the same party.  It was not the member's
|> party which was considered unfit, but his race...

Fair enough.  My take on the matter, and I will admit to the possibility
that this might be seen differently is that this was a dummy argument.
If he was sitting on the committee, then someone else obviously would not
be.  In drumming up support for his seat, MK [?] would not be averse to
using this argument, or it could be used on his behalf.

As to the proof presented in this article, I would find it very
interesting to know who proposed the compromise along with a followup
describing how the matter stands/was resolved.

Let me just take this opportunity to say that I deplore such actions
and groundless justifications.

|> A TEST OF SELF-CONFIDENCE
|> 
|> By Gid'on Levi, Ha'aretz, July 26, 1992
|> 
|> But not to worry: even now the Jewish mind is contriving devices.  The
|> new Committee Chair, Roni Milo, has already announced that he will set up
|> subcommittees aplenty for his committee.  Thus he will decide where it
|> is permissible for Mahamid to participate and where not.  A solution
|> such as this could, by the way, also have been adopted for the rest of
|> the committees, thereby completely eliminating the fear of state secrets
|> being leaked to the enemy and removing the stain of discrimination from
|> the Knesset.

For the record, Roni Milo, is a brash MK (self described) from the Likud
(note NOT LABOR).  Quite frankly, I don't think anything he would say could
surprise me.  Annoy and aggravate, yes, surprise - no.

|> Do you accept that as documentation?

Yes I do and thank you for providing it.  I would be most interested
in knowing how things turned out.  Anyone......?


-- 
Shai Guday              | Stealth bombers,
OS Software Engineer    |
Thinking Machines Corp. |	the winged ninja of the skies.
Cambridge, MA           |
