Xref: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu soc.religion.christian:21669
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news.harvard.edu!noc.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!concert!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!geneva.rutgers.edu!christian
From: maureen@scicom.alphacdc.com (Maureen Brucker)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Is this ethical?
Message-ID: <May.18.00.55.27.1993.9575@geneva.rutgers.edu>
Date: 18 May 93 04:55:28 GMT
Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu
Lines: 82
Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

The following was published in the May 15th Rocky Mountain News.  I
guess I have some REAL ethical problems with the practices at this
church.  I understand that Baptism is an overriding factor.  I also
understand that this is not an honest way to proceed.  Unfortunately,
this is becoming more typical of congregations as the Second Coming is
perceived to approach.

There is a real element of disparation in this 'make it happen at any
cost' style of theology.  I wonder where TRUST IN THE LORD fits into
this equation?

Baptisms draw parents' ire -- Children at church carnival in Springs
told they'd be killed by bee stings if they didn't submit to religious
rite.

By Dick Foster -- Rocky Mountain News Southern Bureau

Colorado Springs -- Outraged parents say their children were lured to
a church carnival and then baptixed without their permission by a
Baptist minister.

Doxens of children, some as young as 8 years old and unaccompanied by
their parents, thought they were going to a carnival at the
Cornerstone Baptist Church, where there would be a big water fight,
free balloons, squirt guns and candy.

Before that May 1 carnival was over, however, children were whisked
into a room for religious instruction and told they should be
baptized.  In many cases they consented, although they or their
families are not of the Baptist faith.

The baptisms by the church have angered many parents, including
Paulette Lamontagne, a Methodist and mother of twin 8-year-old girls
who were baptized without her knowledge or consent.

'My understnading was they were going to a carnival.  I feel that's a
false pretense,' said Lamontagne.  Her daughters said the minister
told them they would be killed by bee stings if they were not
baptized.

Cornerstone church officials defended their actions.

'We take our instructions from the word of God and God has commanded
us to baptize converts.  No one can show me one passage in the Bible
where it says that parental permission is required before a child is
baptized,' said Dan Irwin, associate pastor of the Cornerstone Baptist
Church.

Church officials did not tell parents their children would be baptized
because 'they didn't ask,' Irwin said.

Many other parents also felt they were simply sending their children
to a carnival at the invitation of their children's friends who were
members of the Cornerstone Church.

Police said chhurch officials had broken on laws in baptizing the
children, but indicated the parents could pursue civil action.

-------------------------------------------
Aren't these the same behaviors we condemn
in the Hari Krishnas and other cults?

[I think the issues are more complex than the newspaper account
mentions.  First, I'm not entirely sure that parental consent is
absolutely required.  This would be extremely difficult, because of
the clear commandment to obey parents.  But if an older child insisted
on being baptized without their parents' consent, I might be willing
to do it.  However this would be a serious step, and would warrant
much careful discussion.  The problem I find here is not so much
parental consent as that there was nobody's consent.  Whether you
believe in infant baptism or not, baptism is supposed to be the sign
of entry into a Christian community.  If there isn't a commitment from
*somebody*, whether parent or child, and no intent to become part of
the Church, the baptism appears to be a lie.  Furthermore, it is
likely to raise serious practical problems.  What if the child is from
a baptist tradition?  Normally when he reaches the age of decision, he
would be expected to make a decision and be baptized.  But he already
has been, by a church claiming to be a Baptist church.  So does he get
rebaptized?  Neither answer is really very good.  If not, he's being
robbed of an experience that should be very significant to his faith.

--clh]
