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From: aidler@sol.uvic.ca (E Alan  Idler)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin
Message-ID: <May.16.01.56.21.1993.6677@geneva.rutgers.edu>
Date: 16 May 93 05:56:22 GMT
Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu
Organization: University of Victoria
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Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

muddmj@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>> But, haven't "all sinned, and come short of the glory
>> of God" (Romans 3:23)?
>> Those that cite this scripture to claim that even
>> babes require baptism neglect that "sin is not imputed
>> when there is no law" (Romans 5:13).
>>
>> Therefore, until someone is capable of comprehending
>> God's laws they are not accountable for living them.
>> They are in the book of life and are not removed until
>> they can make a conscious decision to disobey God.
>>
>> A IDLER

>If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn't the Bible
>ever say so.  It never comes right and says "Only people that know
>right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised."
>        What Christ did say was :

>        "I solemly assure you, NO ONE can enter God's kingdom without
>         being born of water and Spirit ... Do not be surprised that I
>         tell you you must ALL be begotten from above."

>Could this be because everyone is born with original sin?

(I presume you are quoting John 3:3-7.)

1.  My King James Bible says "Except a man be born of water 
and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" 
(John 3:5).  (Here "man" == "adult").
(However, this could be a quibble between translations.)

2.  We can also analyze to whom the Lord is addressing:
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again"
(John 3:7).  Here Jesus is clearly directing his remarks
to Nicodemus -- a ruler of the Jews (not a child).

3.  We can ask ourselves why the Lord would even 
introduce the concept of spiritual re-birth through
baptism if newborn babies weren't free from sin?

A IDLER

[Yup, in John 3:5 "man" is not in the original.  A better translation
is "no one can enter...", as in NRSV.  Of course in 3:7, Jesus is
addressing the person who came to him.  There are other places in the
NT where he deals with children.  They've been mentioned in other
postings.  --clh]
