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From: max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: earthquake prediction
Message-ID: <May.18.00.56.03.1993.9605@geneva.rutgers.edu>
Date: 18 May 93 04:56:04 GMT
Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu
Organization: Cypress Semi, Beaverton OR
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Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

In article <May.11.02.37.28.1993.28163@athos.rutgers.edu> dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes:
>: >     I believe with everything in my heart that on May 3, 1993, the city of
>: >Portland, Oregon in the country of the United States of America will be hit
>: >with a catastrophic and disastrous earthquake...
>: By now, we know that this did not come to pass....

Surprise, surprise. I sure didn't lose any sleep over it, and I live there.

>Mistakes in this area are costly and dangerous.  For me, my greatest fears
>in this area would be the following:[..]
>4--were God to call me to be a prophet and I were to misrepresent God's Word,
>   my calling would be lost forever.  God's Word would command the people
>   never to listen to or fear my words as I would be a false prophet.  My
>   bridges would be burnt forever.  Perhaps I could repent and be saved, but
>   I could never again be a prophet of God.

Suppose someone said that he was sure that he would return from death,
in glory and power, flying in the clouds with the host of heaven,soon, within
the lifetimes of those then standing with him - and 2000 years went by without
any such event. [He also asserted, so they say, himself to be God.]

2 questions:

	1) Is that one of those "false prophecies" you were talking about?
	2) Does that make the speaker a false prophet?

>Speak directly.  If the Lord has given you something to say, say it.
>But, before I declare "thus sayeth the Lord", I'd better know for certain
>without a shadow of a doubt that I am in the correct spiritual condition
>and relationship with the Lord to receive such a prophecy and be absolutely
>certain, again, without the tiniest shadow of a doubt that there is no
>possibility of my being misled by my own imaginations or by my hope of gaining
>recognition or of being misled by the wiles of the devil and his followers.

Uhh,  Has it occurred to you that there is no way to know any of these
things, for certain, "without the tiniest shadow of a doubt"? That people
who thought they did have also been deluded?

Those of us who believe in actually being able to _CHECK_ our opinions
have an out - we can check against some external reality. Those who
assert that beliefs entertained without evidence, or even despite evidence
have a special virtue (ie. "faith") are out of luck -- and this is the
result.

>It's time that we christians give an example of honesty that stands out in
>contrast against this backdrop of falsehood.  When we say, "thus sayeth the
>Lord", it happens.  When we pray, prayer is answered because we prayed right.
>When we say we're christians, we really mean it.
>
>           Dan

You want to demonstrate Christian honesty? Great.
Start with the prophecy above - what can we conclude about the speaker?

	Max
