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From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: Who's next?  Mormons and Jews?
Message-ID: <1993Apr21.143810.5744@ra.royalroads.ca>
Sender: mlee@ra.royalroads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
References: <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <C5rLnE.4pC@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <1993Apr20.063024.20311@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> <C5s6As.Kwo@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 14:38:10 GMT
Lines: 97


In article <C5s6As.Kwo@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, pmy@vivaldi.acc.Virginia.EDU (Pete Yadlowsky) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr20.063024.20311@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
|> 
|> >>...Anyway, I've often wondered what
|> >>business followers of Christ would have with weapons.
|> 
|> >Didn't Christ tell his disciples to arm them selves, shortly 
|> >before his crusifiction? (I believe the exact quote was along the
|> >lines of, "If you have [something] sell it and buy a sword.")
|> 
|> This from a guy who preached love, deference of power to God and
|> renunciation of worldly life in exchange for a life of the spirit? If
|> Jesus did in fact command his disciples to arm themselves, I would
|> take that as yet another reason to reject Christian doctrine, for
|> whatever it's worth.
|> 

Let me clarify.  In order to more clearly understand scripture, one must
look in the context of where the verse is found.  The section you refer
to here is found in Luke 22.  I'd like to start back at verse 35 and I'll
include it here for the sake of completeness:

   Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals,
   did you lack anything?"
   "Nothing." the disciples replied.

Verse 36 says:  "But now, if you have a purse take it and also a bag; and
    if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.  It is written,
    "And he was numbered with the transgressors."

Verse 38 says:  The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
                "That is enough."  he replied.

What does this all mean?
 
In verse 35, Jesus points out to the disciples that when he sent them out
previously, they did not need to take anything with them.  Their food,
lodging and transport were often provided through the generosity of others.
If verse 36, Jesus alludes to the change in attitude that is to come in the
near future.  Remember, Jesus was saying these things shortly before he was
to be arrested.  In verse 36, He tells the disciples that they will have
to take their own possessions and provisions with them.  THey will have to
carry their own purse because there will be no longer any generosity from
anyone.  And there will be times of peril when they will have to take care
of themselves.  This was implied by the reference to the sword.  Jesus knew
that He was going to be arrested and labeled as a criminal.  The charges
brought against Him were likely to be passed on to his disciples.

In verse 38, we see that the disciples have taken Jesus too literally.  It is
not the first time that the disciples got His message wrong.  They had done 
this on several occassions.  Instead of understanding the gist of His words,
they presented Him with two swords.  Jesus was perhaps taken aback by
this promptly concludes the discussion by saying, "That is enough."

The disciples could not understand why Jesus had to die.  Jesus kept telling
them over and over again that He would soon not be with them but they could
not grasp this.  They wanted their Messiah to be a political leader who would
lead them in rebellion against the Romans.  That is why they were so keen on
presenting Him with the swords.  They had no idea that Jesus was referring to
a different kingdom of which they were to be a part of.  The disciples could
only perceive of a kingdom on earth rather than the one in Heaven.

Understand that Jesus NEVER intended his followers to take up arms in rebellion.
This was clearly in evidence in Luke 22:51 when Jesus rebuked his disciples for 
using the sword against the servant of the high priest when they came to arrest 
Him.  As further evidence, Jesus goes so far as to heal the man injured by the disciples.  Jesus did NOT condone violence as a means for His purpose.

Contrast this behaviour with that of David Koresh and you will clearly see that
DK was NOT Jesus as he claimed.  Jesus surrendered himself to the authourities
and allowed himself to be crucified.  He didn't go out in a blaze of glory, but
rather Jesus was executed like a common criminal.  

I hope this makes it a little more clear.

God be with you,

Malcolm Lee  :)

|> >>Well, when the nice federal officers come to my house to check out my
|> >>extensive weapons cache, I'll just be sure not to shoot at them.
|> >>"Tea, ladies and gentlemen?"
|> 
|> >Actually, that's pretty much wht the "Branch Davidian" siad when
|> >the local Sherrif knocked on their door.
|> >Of course, when armed men assaulted them without warrning, it was a
|> >different matter...
|> 
|> Why? Did they not know that these men were federal officers? Why was
|> there a need for a followup visit at all? Didn't Jesus have a few words
|> about submission to government authority?
|> 
|> --
|> Peter M. Yadlowsky              |  Wake! The sky is light!
|> Academic Computing Center       | Let us to the Net again...
|> University of Virginia          |    Companion keyboard.
|> pmy@Virginia.EDU                |                      - after Basho
