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From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Ten questions about Israel
Message-ID: <C5yGus.D0z@bony1.bony.com>
Date: 23 Apr 93 21:25:39 GMT
References: <1483500349@igc.apc.org> <1993Apr20.213819.664@vms.huji.ac.il> <ARENS.93Apr20192345@grl.ISI.EDU>
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Lines: 66

In article <ARENS.93Apr20192345@grl.ISI.EDU> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

>At issue was not a trial behind closed doors, but arrest, trial and
>imprisonment in complete secrecy.  This was appraently attempted in the
>case of Vanunu and failed.  It has happened before, and there is reason
>to believe it still goes on.

The lengthy article you quote doesn't imply this.  It only states that
it is somehow POSSIBLE, not that it is in any way likely.  This is akin
to an article saying that it is POSSIBLE that the USAF has several
captured UFOs, without supporting the liklihood of such an assertion.

>Read this:
>From Ma'ariv, February 18 (possibly 28), 1992
>PUBLICATION BAN
>
>By Baruch Me'iri
>
>All those involved in this matter politely refused my request, one way
>or another: "Look, the subject is too delicate.  If I comment on it, I
>will be implicitly admitting that it is true; If I mention a specific
>case, even hint at it, I might be guilty of making public something
>which may legally not be published".

In other words, they were telling a pesky reporter to keep guessing.

Israel maintains this same attitude about nuclear weapons it may or
may not have.  The US maintains the same attitude about the presence
of nuclear weapons on specific naval craft.  By refusing to
acknowledge the existence of such weapons on specific ships, US
warships have, I believe, become unwelcome in New Zealand, which has
declared itself a nuclear-free-zone.  

>The State of Israel has never officially admitted that for many years
>there have been in its prisons Israeli citizens who were sentenced to
>long prison terms without either the fact of their arrest or the
>crimes of which they were accused ever being made public. More
>precisely: A court ordered publication ban was placed on the fact of
>their arrest, and later on their imprisonment.

The USAF has never officially admitted to having any UFOs, either.

>In Israel of 1993, citizens are imprisoned without us, the citizens of
>this country, knowing anything about it.  Not knowing anything about
>the fact that one person or another were tried and thrown in prison,
>for security offenses, in complete secrecy.

This is stated as a fact without supporting evidence.  It would've
been more convincing if your reporter had come up with just one name
of someone who is sitting in jail, lost to the world, as he suggests.
Maybe Elvis, or JFK, somebody.  

Let's put it this way: If Israel has put people away without
publicizing their arrests or the legal proceedings against them, how
has their disappearance been explained?  People have relatives,
friends and colleagues, you know.  Israel is not known as a place
where people are made to vanish.  Would you care to give us a list of
people whose whereabouts are unknown?  People who are presumed to be
imprisoned?  This whole conspiracy story isn't something that we've
come to associate with Yigal Arens before.  Perhaps from now on, we
should. 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com           Ten years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.    standard of a failed President.
