Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!gatech!concert!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian
From: vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: The arrogance of Christians
Message-ID: <Apr.14.03.07.30.1993.5411@athos.rutgers.edu>
Date: 14 Apr 93 07:07:31 GMT
Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu
Organization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

In article <Apr.13.00.08.35.1993.28412@athos.rutgers.edu> caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes:
>vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.) writes:
>>In article <Apr.10.05.32.29.1993.14388@athos.rutgers.edu> caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes:
>> > ...
>> >
>> >Are all truths also absolutes?
>> >Is all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)?
>> >
>> >If the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can 
>> >explain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and
>> >which truths are absolutes.  
>> 
>> The answer to both questions is yes.
>
>Perhaps we have different definitions of absolute then.  To me,
>an absolute is something that is constant across time, culture,
>situations, etc.  True in every instance possible.  Do you agree
>with this definition?  I think you do:
>
>> Similarly, all truth is absolute.  Indeed, a non-absolute truth is a 
>> contradiction in terms.  When is something absolute?  When it is always
>> true.  Obviously, if a "truth" is not always "true" then we have a
>> contradiction in terms.  

Yes, I do agree with your definition.  My use of the term "always" is
rather deceptive, I admit.  
 
>A simple example:
>
>In the New Testament (sorry I don't have a Bible at work, and can't
>provide a reference), women are instructed to be silent and cover
>their heads in church.  Now, this is scripture.  By your definition, 
>this is truth and therefore absolute.  

Hold it.  I said that all of scripture is true.  However, discerning
exactly what Jesus, Paul and company were trying to say is not always so
easy.  I don't believe that Paul was trying to say that all women should
behave that way.  Rather, he was trying to say that under the circumstances
at the time, the women he was speaking to would best avoid volubility and
cover their heads.  This has to do with maintaining a proper witness toward
others.  Remember that any number of relativistic statements can be derived
from absolutes.  For instance, it is absolutely right for Christians to
strive for peace.  However, this does not rule out trying to maintain world
peace by resorting to violence on occasion.  (Yes, my opinion.)
 
>Evangelicals are clearly not taking this particular part of scripture 
>to be absolute truth.  (And there are plenty of other examples.)
>Can you reconcile this?

Sure.  The Bible preaches absolute truths.  However, exactly what those
truths are is sometimes a matter of confusion.  As I said, the Bible does
preach absolute truths.  Sometimes those fundamental principles are crystal
clear (at least to evangelicals).  Sometimes they are not so clear to
everyone (e.g. should baptism be by full immersion or not, etc).  That is
largely because sometimes, it is not explicitly spelled out whether the writers
are speaking to a particular culture or to Christianity as a whole.  This is 
where scholarship and the study of Biblical contexts comes in.  
 
>It's very difficult to see how you can claim something which is based 
>on your own *interpretation* is absolute.  

God revealed his Truths to the world, through His Word.  It is utterly 
unavoidable, however, that some people whill come up with alternate 
interpretations.  Practically anything can be misinterpreted, especially
when it comes to matters of right and wrong.  Care to deny that?


-- 
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng'g and Applied Physics 
	 CWRU graduate student, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabee
    "Bullwinkle, that man's intimidating a referee!"   |    My boss is a 
   "Not very well.  He doesn't look like one at all!"  |  Jewish carpenter.
