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From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.iranian
Subject: After all, Armenians exterminated 2.5 million Muslim people there.
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Sender: news@anatolia.org
Message-ID: <9304241216@zuma.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 93 12:16:32 EDT
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
References: <C5y56o.A62@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Distribution: world
Lines: 297

In article <C5y56o.A62@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian) writes:

>article.  I have no partisan interests --- I would just like to know
>what conversations between TerPetrosyan and Demirel sound like.  =)

Very simple.

"X-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide 
 against 2.5 million Muslims by admitting to the crime and making 
 reparations to the Turks and Kurds."

After all, your criminal grandparents exterminated 2.5 million Muslim
people between 1914 and 1920.


<C5yyBt.5zo@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)

>To which I say:
>Hear, hear.  Motion seconded.

You must be a new 'Arromdian'. You are counting on ASALA/SDPA/ARF 
crooks and criminals to prove something for you? No wonder you are in 
such a mess. That criminal idiot and 'its' forged/non-existent junk has 
already been trashed out by Mutlu, Cosar, Akgun, Uludamar, Akman, Oflazer 
and hundreds of people. Moreover, ASALA/SDPA/ARF criminals are responsible 
for the massacre of the Turkish people that also prevent them from entering 
Turkiye and TRNC. SDPA has yet to renounce its charter which specifically 
calls for the second genocide of the Turkish people. This racist, barbarian 
and criminal view has been touted by the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government 
as merely a step on the road to said genocide. 

Now where shall I begin?

#From: ahmet@eecg.toronto.edu (Parlakbilek Ahmet)
#Subject: YALANCI, LIAR : DAVIDIAN
#Keywords: Davidian, the biggest liar
#Message-ID: <1991Jan10.122057.11613@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>

Following is the article that Davidian claims that Hasan Mutlu is a liar:

>From: dbd@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian)
>Message-ID: <1154@urartu.SDPA.org>

>In article <1991Jan4.145955.4478@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ahmet@eecg.toronto.
>edu (Ahmet Parlakbilek) asked a simple question:

>[AP] I am asking you to show me one example in which mutlu,coras or any other
>[AP] Turk was proven to lie.I can show tens of lies and fabrications of
>[AP] Davidian, like changing quote , even changing name of a book, Anna.

>The obvious ridiculous "Armenians murdered 3 million Moslems" is the most
>outragious and unsubstantiated charge of all. You are obviously new on this 
>net, so read the following sample -- not one, but three proven lies in one
>day!

>			- - - start yalanci.txt - - -

[some parts are deleted]

>In article <1990Aug5.142159.5773@cbnewsd.att.com> the usenet scribe for the 
>Turkish Historical Society, hbm@cbnewsd.att.com (hasan.b.mutlu), continues to
>revise the history of the Armenian people. Let's witness the operational
>definition of a revisionist yalanci (or liar, in Turkish):

>[Yalanci] According to Leo:[1]
>[Yalanci]
>[Yalanci] "The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks
>[Yalanci] and on the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding
>[Yalanci] their own affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed,
>[Yalanci] the war was actually being waged between the Committee of 
>[Yalanci] Dashnaktsutiun and the Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and 
>[Yalanci] savage war in defense of party political interests. The Dashnaks 
>[Yalanci] incited revolts which relied on Russian bayonets for their success."
>[Yalanci] 
>[Yalanci] [1] L. Kuper, "Genocide: Its Political Use in the Twentieth Century,"
>[Yalanci]     New York 1981, p. 157.

>This text is available not only in most bookstores but in many libraries. On
>page 157 we find a discussion of related atrocities (which is title of the
>chapter). The topic on this page concerns itself with submissions to the Sub-
>Commission on Prevention of Discrimination of Minorities of the Commission on
>Human Rights of the United Nations with respect to the massacres in Cambodia.
>There is no mention of Turks nor Armenians as claimed above.

				- - -

>Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!

>The depth of foolishness the Turkish Historical Society engages in, while
>covering up the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, is only surpassed by the 
>ridiculous "historical" material publicly displayed!

>David Davidian <dbd@urartu.SDPA.org>  | The life of a people is a sea, and  

Receiving this message, I checked the reference, L.Kuper,"Genocide..." and
what I have found was totally consistent with what Davidian said.The book
was like "voice of Armenian revolutionists" and although I read the whole book,
I could not find the original quota.
But there was one more thing to check:The original posting of Mutlu.I found 
the original article of Mutlu.It is as follows:

> According to Leo:[1]

>"The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks and on
> the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding their own 
> affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed, the war was
> actually being waged between the Committee of Dashnaktsutiun and the
> Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and savage war in defense of party
> political interests. The Dashnaks incited revolts which relied on Russian
> bayonets for their success." 

>[1] B. A. Leo. "The Ideology of the Armenian Revolution in Turkey," vol II,
     ======================================================================
>    p. 157.
    ======

QUATO IS THE SAME, REFERENCE IS DIFFERENT !

DAVIDIAN LIED AGAIN, AND THIS TIME HE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL POSTING OF MUTLU
JUST TO ACCUSE HIM TO BE A LIAR.

Davidian, thank you for writing the page number correctly...

You are the biggest liar I have ever seen.This example showed me that tomorrow
you can lie again, and you may try to make me a liar this time.So I decided
not to read your articles and not to write answers to you.I also advise
all the netters to do the same.We can not prevent your lies, but at least
we may save time by not dealing with your lies.

And for the following line:
>Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!

I also return all the insults you wrote about Mutlu to you.
I hope you will be drowned in your lies.

Ahmet PARLAKBILEK

#From: vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Vedat  Dogan)
#Message-ID: <1993Apr8.233029.29094@news.columbia.edu>

In article <1993Apr7.225058.12073@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes:
>In article <1993Apr7.030636.7473@news.columbia.edu> vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
>(Vedat  Dogan) wrote in response to article <1993Mar31.141308.28476@urartu.
>11sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes:
>
 
>[(*] Source: "Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922" by A. Rawlinson,
>[(*] Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) 
>[(*] (287 pages).
>
>[DD] Such a pile of garbage! First off, the above reference was first published
>[DD] in 1924 NOT 1923, and has 353 pages NOT 287! Second, upon checking page 
>[DD] 178, we are asked to believe:
> 
>[VD] No, Mr.Davidian ... 
> 
>[VD]  It was first published IN 1923 (I have the book on my desk,now!) 
>[VD]                         ********
> 
>[VD]  and furthermore,the book I have does not have 353 pages either, as you
>[VD]  claimed, Mr.Davidian..It has 377 pages..Any question?..
>  
>Well, it seems YOUR book has its total page numbers closer to mine than the 
n>crap posted by Mr. [(*]!
 
 o boy!   
 
 Please, can you tell us why those quotes are "crap"?..because you do not 
 like them!!!...because they really exist...why?
 
 As I said in my previous posting, those quotes exactly exist in the source 
 given by Serdar Argic .. 
  
 You couldn't reject it...
 
>
>In addition, the Author's Preface was written on January 15, 1923, BUT THE BOOK
>was published in 1924.
 
 Here we go again..
 In the book I have, both the front page and the Author's preface give 
 the same year: 1923 and 15 January, 1923, respectively!
 (Anyone can check it at her/his library,if not, I can send you the copies of
 pages, please ask by sct) 
 
 
I really don't care what year it was first published(1923 or 1924)
What I care about is what the book writes about murders, tortures,et..in
the given quotes by Serdar Argic, and your denial of these quotes..and your
groundless accussations, etc. 
 
>
[...]
> 
>[DD] I can provide .gif postings if required to verify my claim!
> 
>[VD] what is new?
> 
>I will post a .gif file, but I am not going go through the effort to show there 
>is some Turkish modified re-publication of the book, like last time!
 
 
 I claim I have a book in my hand published in 1923(first publication)
 and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published
 in 1934(Serdar Argic's Reference) has..You couldn't reject it..but, now you
 are avoiding the real issues by twisting around..
 
 Let's see how you lie!..(from 'non-existing' quotes to re-publication)
 
 First you said there was no such a quote in the given reference..You
 called Serdar Argic a liar!..
 I said to you, NO, MR.Davidian, there exactly existed such a quote...
 (I even gave the call number, page numbers..you could't reject it.)
 
 And now, you are lying again and talking about "modified,re-published book"
(without any proof :how, when, where, by whom, etc..)..
 (by the way, how is it possible to re-publish the book in 1923 if it was
  first published in 1924(your claim).I am sure that you have some 'pretty 
  well suited theories', as usual)
 
 And I am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who
 wants to compare the fact and Mr.Davidian's lies...I also give the call number
 and page numbers again for the library use, which are:  
                 949.6 R 198
   
  and the page numbers to verify the quotes:218 and 215
              
     
 
> 
>It is not possible that [(*]'s text has 287 pages, mine has 353, and yours has
>377!
 
 Now, are you claiming that there can't be such a reference by saying "it is
 not possible..." ..If not, what is your point?
 
 Differences in the number of pages?
 Mine was published in 1923..Serdar Argic's was in 1934..
 No need to use the same book size and the same letter 
 charachter in both publications,etc, etc.. does it give you an idea!!
 
 The issue was not the number of pages the book has..or the year
 first published.. 
 And you tried to hide the whole point..
 the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about
 how moslems are killed, tortured,etc by Armenians..and those quotes given 
 by Serdar Argic exist!! 
 It was the issue, wasn't-it?  
 
 you were not able to object it...Does it bother you anyway? 
 
 You name all these tortures and murders (by Armenians) as a "crap"..
 People who think like you are among the main reasons why the World still
 has so many "craps" in the 1993. 
 
 Any question?
 

<C5wwqA.9wL@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian)

>   Hmm ... Turks sure know how to keep track of deaths, but they seem to
>lose count around 1.5 million.

Well, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with. 
You should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on
distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel 
that you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum 
you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to 
another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but a fact.

I will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, 
lie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan 
to 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is 
nothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in 
x-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, 
that employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel 
free to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists,
the Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian
criminal organizations.

Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men,
women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and 
those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.

Not a chance.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                  (Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)

