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From: hardy@esdd460a.erim.org (Russ Hardy)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Mary and Idols
Message-ID: <May.28.03.59.11.1993.3887@geneva.rutgers.edu>
Date: 28 May 93 07:59:12 GMT
Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu
Organization: Environmental Research Institute of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan
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Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu


 I have been studying the Bible now for about a year.  I love it,
but I am not very familiar with the different denominations, or
traditions, or common beliefs of various christian groups.
I have heard various people (outside this news group)
describe *idols* such as power, money, material 
possessions etc.  These things are worshiped in some sense I 
suppose, but I never really gave idols much thought.  Until now...  

I have been reading the postings in this news group (which I 
just found a few days ago), and I have a question...  First, I'm
not trying to question anyone's belief or try to push my views
on anyone else (I haven't been at this long enough to have
any views other than I cannot get to heaven by being good,
I must understand that Christ bore my sins on the cross so that
I could be saved and I need to repent, i.e. realize that
every time I sin, I might as well stick a sharp stick in
Christ's side because He took the punishment for my sins,
when He died on the cross).

In my studies, Mary never really comes up.  I know who she is, 
but that's about it.  It seems to me that a statue of Mary 
could be considered an idol?  Do people pray to statues of Mary?

It sounds like educated christians (more educated than myself
I'm sure) believe Mary was sinless?  Wow...  I hoped to spend
the summer convincing myself (one way or the other) about
Tongues (I'm reading "Charismatic Chaos").  I guess I'll study
Tongues in parallel with reading this news group.  Any help you can 
give me will be appreciated.

    -------------------------------------------

[I don't think the issue is so much that people are more educated than
you (though it may well be that they are), as that they come from a
different tradition than yours.

This is a discussion between Catholics and Protestants.  Catholics
generally believe that Mary was sinless.  Protestants do not.  The
issue comes down to different sources of authority.  Protestants
generally limit themselves to the Bible as a source of doctrine.
Since this isn't in the Bible (except in passages that no one would
understand in this way if they didn't already believe it), Protestants
don't accept it.  Catholics see continuing revelation through the
Church, though they believe the results are consistent with the Bible.

I interpret your posting, not as a call for yet another argument about
whether the Catholic Marian devotions are idolatry (an argument I am
not prepared to see newed here), but as a sign of being interested in
learning about traditions other than your own.  Catholics are of
course a major one, but by no means the only one.  I generally
consider the major traditions to be Catholic, Orthodox, and
various subsets of Protestantism.  Within Protestantism, it's a matter
of how finely you want to cut things.  These days I think the major
division is between those who accept Biblical inerrancy and those
who don't.  There are also a number of major historical traditions,
but in recent decades distinctions are tending to blur.  I'd 
identify the major Protestant traditions as:

  Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican (they're sort of halfway between
  Catholic and Protestant), Wesleyan, Baptist, Holiness, Pentecostal,
  Church of Christ

But there are a number of others.  Historical distinctions tend not to
be so important among the liberal churches anymore, and I think
current trends in society and the Church are also tending to make
conservatives seen themselves as allies from a general "evangelical"
perspective.  But differences among these various traditions are still
quite marked.

I think the best introduction to these issues is to read a good book
on church history.  Anyone who wants to understand the church really
needs to understand how we got where we are now.  A church history
will normally show you where each of these traditions came from, and
give a feeling for their nature.  Unfortunately I'm away from my
library at the moment, so I don't have anything specific to recommend.

--clh]
