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From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: BALTIC states and "realism" and 'virvir' drivel
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
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Message-ID: <9305151037@zuma.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 15 May 93 10:37:47 EDT
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
References: <1sv6r1$f0m@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
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In article <1sv6r1$f0m@zip.eecs.umich.edu> sechrest@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Stuart Sechrest) writes:

>>   Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and
>>   published by a member of American "Near East Relief Organization."
>>   Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem
>>   people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and
>>   Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities
>>   against the Turkish people in Armenia.

>Actually, it is Leonard *R as in Ramsden* Hartill. 

Ditto.

Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). 
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

>But, as you point out so often, there is no use arguing with easily 
>verified facts:

>``As the Turks had solved the Armenian problem in Turkey by slaying
>or driving the Armenians out of the country, so we now proceeded
>to solve the Tartar problem in Armenia.  We closed the roads and
>mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Tartars,
>and then proceeded in the work of extermination.''

>        Ohanus Appressian, from L. R. Hartill, ``Men Are Like That,''
>        The Bobbs-Merrill Company, London, 1928.  P. 202.

You have set up straw horses and knocked them down. I'm not impressed. 
Let us ask Armenian scholars - shall we?


Source: K. S. Papazian, "Patriotism Perverted," Baikar Press, Boston, 1934.

pp. 17-18.

"It seems that terrorism against their own co-nationals has been a prominent
 part of the revolutionary activities of the Dashnag leaders of the Caucasus.
 Organized to fight the Turks, these chieftains have been more successful
 in their fight against their Armenian opponents in Turkey, and the Caucasus,
 very often defenseless and innocent."

p. 25.

"We were defeated".

p. 38.

"The fact remains, however, that the leaders of the Turkish Armenian section
 of the Dashnagtzoutune did not carry out their promise of loyalty to the
 Turkish cause when the Turks entered the war...and a call was sent for 
 Armenian volunteers to fight the Turks on the Caucasian front."

p. 38.

"Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of
 such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer
 regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of
 1914-15-16."


By the way, here is the entire paragraph.

"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as 
 ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work 
 of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. 
 Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts 
 into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable 
 and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets 
 completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They 
 found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border 
 into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole 
 length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to 
 Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain 
 plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of 
 Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for 
 howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the 
 scattered bones of the dead." 

                             Ohanus Appressian
                            "Men Are Like That"
                                   p. 202.

Now wait, there is more.

1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5]
2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4]
3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4]
4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,3,4]
5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,2,3,4]
6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4]
7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet
   Armenia.[1,2,3,4]
8)....

[1] McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman 
                   Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York 
                   University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.

[2] Karpat, K., "Ottoman Population," The University of Wisconsin Press,
                 1985.

[3] Hovannisian, R. G., "Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. 
                         University of California Press (Berkeley and 
                         Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37.

[4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies 
                  in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey 
                  (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of 
                  Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)." (London, Cambridge University 
                  Press 1977). pp. 315-316.

[5] "Gochnak" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24, 
              1915.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                  (Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)


